EIAF chose the topic "Geology Shows Fauna Succession." So, let’s stick to that only. It took two sentences for EIAF to argue the geologic Law of Superposition. That’s easy. Sediments do settle into rock layers from bottom to top. It took 1800 words for him to argue the “law” of faunal succession (evolution of animals). EIAF claims “there is evidence” a lot, but just saying it isn’t enough. Even his few examples are only opinion and interpretation, as we will see.
Worm to fish to amphibian, chordates live at different depths -- in the same order as the fossils left from Noah’s Flood – simple to understand. Turbidity currents (undersea mudslides) today do bury and kill all bottom sea life in its path, next the deep fish, then shallow fish. EIAF denies this observation by scientists. The global turbidity current of the Flood, made fossilization and extinction of many ocean species a must – not an impossibility, as EIAF tries to say.
Read EIAF’s geology discussions. You will see that everything he gives as proof of evolution really comes from this – he does not believe in a global flood on Earth. So why does he believe in a global flood on Mars? (And if he does not, then he’s against those he says he trusts.) 100% of Mars is a desert. 75% of Earth is two miles deep in water. Figure it out. Earth looks like it just had a Flood. EIAF’s denial of the obvious Flood is the foundation for his arguments. His emperor has no clothes.
What proof did EIAF actually give?
He says, “it's clear birds evolved from reptiles” because he thinks Archaeoptryx is the dino-bird missing link. But every “link fossil” that supposedly led up to Archaeoptryx is from the layers above it -- out of sync with evolution theory order (National Geographic, 7/98, p91 & whole article). The Chair of Biology at UNC-Chapel Hill says it is not a link. “It is a bird, a perching bird. And no amount of ‘paleobabble’ is going to change that.” (Science, 2/5/93). Dead birds float, so that’s why their fossils are only in upper sediments – not because they took eons to evolve. Geology disqualifies Archaeoptryx as the bird missing link and confirms the mud layers coordinate with the sequence of events during Noah’s Flood.
EIAF names three missing links between land mammals and whales. Pakicetus was disqualified in 2001 when new fossils showed it was "no more amphibious than a tapir" (Nature, 9/20/01, p277-81). Certain bones that made Ambulocetus look like the missing link were actually in rock 16 feet above the fossil, so they’re not even part of it. Basilosaurus was ten times longer than Ambulocetus – way too big for the next link. Whale expert Phillip Gingerich says the rear “legs” of Basilosaurus were used in mating (The Press Enterprise, 7/1/90, A-15). EIAF says they were “useless” vestiges from when whales used to walk on land. And there is no model for how nostrils could move gradually through the brain, to the back of the head to make the whale blowhole. Think about it.
EIAF hints snake fossils with legs go against creation theory. But the Bible says snakes did once walk on legs (unlike whales) – no problem. “Legs” on boas and pythons mentioned by EIAF are really only spurs, which are used in mating. Ask someone with a pet boa if they have legs.
EIAF names five ape-man links. Four of those were disqualified as of this year (Newsweek, 3/19/07, p56). Evolution theorists no longer use them. Some say erectus and ergaster are the same thing (National Geographic, 2/97, p78-91). So, this leaves only antecessor … which will likely soon join Cro-Magnon, Neanderthal and EIAF’s other four links – as disqualified.
Only out of date textbooks say there are missing links for birds, whales, or humans. Don’t stand on opinion or theory. Real science uses facts, evidence, and data. Evolution uses urban myths, uncertainties, and outdated models like the ones EIAF has put in print as true and I have documented as false. Let’s continue.
EIAF says our coccyx is a useless “tail” vestige. Muscles for childbirth, rectum control, lower back, and rear abdomen are anchored there. And we sit on it. You’re using yours now. That’s not useless. His textbook is out of date.
He says “vestigial” 18-year molars prove evolution. Until modern dental care, wisdom teeth were needed to replace the ones lost by age 18. That’s not useless. All “vestigial” arguments are out of date, uninformed, and shamefully unprofessional. Let’s continue.
EIAF says a mammal fossil out of sync would disprove evolution. They say only small mouse-sized mammals evolved in the dino days. So how about one big enough to eat small dinosaurs? http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/01/0112_050112_dino_eater.html (“Discovery contradicts evolution theory,” Longview News-Journal, 1/13/05) How bad does it have to get to convince an evolutionist? I call out EIAF to surrender to the data.
EIAF agrees floods cause “rapid sedimentation”. And the bigger the Flood, the more rapid. But fossils can’t crosscut as EIAF claims. Only magma, quakes, intrusions, or erosion can crosscut rock layers. So polystrate tree and animal fossils disqualify evolution theory geology.
Australia-limited marsupials (like kangaroos) are a mystery to all scientists. Marsupial fossils are common except in Southeast Asia, where evolutionists and creationists agree they had to migrate to cross the old land bridge to Australia. Migration from Noah’s Ark to Australia followed that same path.
Dino extinction is also not just a creationist problem. Why do other reptiles survive today, but none from Order Dinosauria? Nobody has solved this yet. EIAF surely hasn't.
Acanthostega and Ichthyostega are not “excellent examples” of fish-amphibian missing links. They had eight and seven bones in their fins “instead of having five digits – which was assumed to be the ancestral pattern among tetrapods” and “could not have managed to do much more than flop around on land … The limbs are pretty much paddles” (Science News, 5/22/90, p328). They are disqualified by the data.
All land animals survived the Flood (including reptiles and scorpions, to answer EIAF’s question) by getting onto the Ark – simple. EIAF has failed to prove even one “discrepancy” or “contradiction” in creation geology. They should be straightforward, easily understood, and easy to prove.
Does geology show animal evolution? EIAF can believe it does if he wants … but not for any of the reasons he gave on this forum. Perhaps he knows more and will tell us. If not, then I call for EIAF to concede there is no proof that “geology shows faunal succession.” The question has been called. Dr J
Thursday, June 14, 2007
Tuesday, June 12, 2007
Evolution is a Fact's Rebuttal
How did Noah get Kangaroos to Australia?
Short of calling the entire Geology and Paleontology communities a group of liars, you'll be hard-pressed to make the case that we find the same fauna throughout these superpositioned layers. Furthermore, your use of the word Phylum leaves your argument a bit vague and overbroad and may confuse readers, as they may not be aware that "Phylum" is an extremely generic classification system, since everything from humans to the most primitive fish (along with every other vertebrate; like birds, reptiles, amphibians, etc) belong to the Phylum of Chordata. So technically your statement is true, since the primitive fish of the Cambrian fall into the same exact Phylum as we do. However, this does nothing to change the fact that we find a gradation of different Chordates as we move up the layers. Readers who are not familiar with the meaning of "Phylum" may think you are making the argument that we indeed find modern mammals and reptiles in Cambrian, Ordivivian, Silaurian and all the other ancient layers where the only vertebrates we find are still primitive fish.
Within the Pre-Cambrian, the Vendian layers clearly contain a limited number of primitive animals. So far, Profiera (sponges) have been discovered in this layer, as well as a number of other primitive orders. Dickinsonia, Cyclomedusa, Eoporpita, Arkarua, Kimberella are a few examples of Vendian layer creatures with semblance to modern day counterparts, yet sometimes difficult to categorize due to anatomical differences. It is clear that we find more than just microbes in the layers preceding Chordates.
I am unaware that anyone has ever proposed the idea that flying squirrels were ancestral to bats. There is no reason modern flying squirrels should possess the exact characteristics between bats and their ancestors as they are contemporaneous to one another. Generally when Creationists refer to transitional forms they are referring to fossils that "should" contain the intermediate steps between two types of animals. Such transitions have indeed been recovered. In addition to the examples I gave in my opening statement, I would also like to refer to Acanthostega and Ichthyostega, as they provide excellent examples of the transition from fish to amphibians. They are found in the upper Devonian; well 'above' the layers we first start finding fish and well before the layers we start finding amphibians and reptiles.
There are a number of Paleontological facts that disqualify a worldwide flood as the cause of fossil placement. First there is no reason that a flood should bury marine animals as they should be most likely to survive a flood given that they are already suited for living in water and it seems unlikely that the existence of more water would not only cause their deaths, but do so before animals not suited for an aquatic life.
There is also the task of explaining how and why Noah's ark would have been able to leave the animals in the various continents. Because we only find Kangaroos (and their fossils) and other large Marsupials in Australia, one would have a hard time explaining how and why this is the case in the context of a worldwide flood and an ark that preserved a few animals. On the other hand, it makes perfect sense if these animals share a common ancestry with their placental relatives whom they were isolated from due to the shifting of continents, and fulfilled parallel niches within Australia via speciation. Unlike the flood/ark conjecture, faunal succession/common ancestry along with continental drift explains why we find fossilized lions (even larger than contemporary African lions) here in Los Angeles.
Furthermore, there is no reason why Komodo Dragons, Elephants, Rhinoceroses, Tigers, Seals, and Peacocks should have survived the flood, while Mosasaurs, Mammoths, Tricerotops, Velociraptors, Ambulecetus, and Archaeopteryxes didn't. Not only is there no reason for a flood to wipe our sea dwelling creatures, but they themselves should not exist in the sequence they do. If a flood is somehow responsible for the destruction of sea life, there is no reason whales should only exist in the upper layers (starting with the Palogene), when we find rudimentary variations of fish (as opposed to modern fish) as low as the Cambrian. In addition to the wide berth between whales and ancient fish, we find plenty of land dwelling vertebrates in between the two, in addition to animal burrows (meaning the deposits must have happened over time).
If the flood is responsible for the extinction of certain birds, then you have to explain how flightless birds like Dodos and Ostriches survived the same.If a flood happened today, it would not bury life in the same order as Evolutionary Theory. Furthermore, we would find remnants of human civilization buried and mixed along the same layers as everything else, not merely in the upper layers. Given that reptiles and amphibians tend to be well-adapted to water, we would find them in layers above many if not most of the mammals, since many mammals are simply not accustomed to water. Fish would be the most successful given the fact that their environment would only becoming larger. Arthropods not suited for water, such as Scorpions and Praying Mantises would not survive such a flood.
The flood and ark explanation provides nothing more than a series of ad hoc explanations for the placement of fossils, and requires even more ad hoc explanations for the various discrepancies and contradictions it creates.
Short of calling the entire Geology and Paleontology communities a group of liars, you'll be hard-pressed to make the case that we find the same fauna throughout these superpositioned layers. Furthermore, your use of the word Phylum leaves your argument a bit vague and overbroad and may confuse readers, as they may not be aware that "Phylum" is an extremely generic classification system, since everything from humans to the most primitive fish (along with every other vertebrate; like birds, reptiles, amphibians, etc) belong to the Phylum of Chordata. So technically your statement is true, since the primitive fish of the Cambrian fall into the same exact Phylum as we do. However, this does nothing to change the fact that we find a gradation of different Chordates as we move up the layers. Readers who are not familiar with the meaning of "Phylum" may think you are making the argument that we indeed find modern mammals and reptiles in Cambrian, Ordivivian, Silaurian and all the other ancient layers where the only vertebrates we find are still primitive fish.
Within the Pre-Cambrian, the Vendian layers clearly contain a limited number of primitive animals. So far, Profiera (sponges) have been discovered in this layer, as well as a number of other primitive orders. Dickinsonia, Cyclomedusa, Eoporpita, Arkarua, Kimberella are a few examples of Vendian layer creatures with semblance to modern day counterparts, yet sometimes difficult to categorize due to anatomical differences. It is clear that we find more than just microbes in the layers preceding Chordates.
I am unaware that anyone has ever proposed the idea that flying squirrels were ancestral to bats. There is no reason modern flying squirrels should possess the exact characteristics between bats and their ancestors as they are contemporaneous to one another. Generally when Creationists refer to transitional forms they are referring to fossils that "should" contain the intermediate steps between two types of animals. Such transitions have indeed been recovered. In addition to the examples I gave in my opening statement, I would also like to refer to Acanthostega and Ichthyostega, as they provide excellent examples of the transition from fish to amphibians. They are found in the upper Devonian; well 'above' the layers we first start finding fish and well before the layers we start finding amphibians and reptiles.
There are a number of Paleontological facts that disqualify a worldwide flood as the cause of fossil placement. First there is no reason that a flood should bury marine animals as they should be most likely to survive a flood given that they are already suited for living in water and it seems unlikely that the existence of more water would not only cause their deaths, but do so before animals not suited for an aquatic life.
There is also the task of explaining how and why Noah's ark would have been able to leave the animals in the various continents. Because we only find Kangaroos (and their fossils) and other large Marsupials in Australia, one would have a hard time explaining how and why this is the case in the context of a worldwide flood and an ark that preserved a few animals. On the other hand, it makes perfect sense if these animals share a common ancestry with their placental relatives whom they were isolated from due to the shifting of continents, and fulfilled parallel niches within Australia via speciation. Unlike the flood/ark conjecture, faunal succession/common ancestry along with continental drift explains why we find fossilized lions (even larger than contemporary African lions) here in Los Angeles.
Furthermore, there is no reason why Komodo Dragons, Elephants, Rhinoceroses, Tigers, Seals, and Peacocks should have survived the flood, while Mosasaurs, Mammoths, Tricerotops, Velociraptors, Ambulecetus, and Archaeopteryxes didn't. Not only is there no reason for a flood to wipe our sea dwelling creatures, but they themselves should not exist in the sequence they do. If a flood is somehow responsible for the destruction of sea life, there is no reason whales should only exist in the upper layers (starting with the Palogene), when we find rudimentary variations of fish (as opposed to modern fish) as low as the Cambrian. In addition to the wide berth between whales and ancient fish, we find plenty of land dwelling vertebrates in between the two, in addition to animal burrows (meaning the deposits must have happened over time).
If the flood is responsible for the extinction of certain birds, then you have to explain how flightless birds like Dodos and Ostriches survived the same.If a flood happened today, it would not bury life in the same order as Evolutionary Theory. Furthermore, we would find remnants of human civilization buried and mixed along the same layers as everything else, not merely in the upper layers. Given that reptiles and amphibians tend to be well-adapted to water, we would find them in layers above many if not most of the mammals, since many mammals are simply not accustomed to water. Fish would be the most successful given the fact that their environment would only becoming larger. Arthropods not suited for water, such as Scorpions and Praying Mantises would not survive such a flood.
The flood and ark explanation provides nothing more than a series of ad hoc explanations for the placement of fossils, and requires even more ad hoc explanations for the various discrepancies and contradictions it creates.
Saturday, June 9, 2007
Creation vs Evolution Debate Intro.
We have all, at one point in our lives, wondered "How did we all get here?". This is a reasonable question and it has been asked for thousands for years! Through science, men and women have set out to answer that very question. Using different fields of science, these individuals have gathered information and evidence in the search for this answer (among many others).
Today, ELIE is very excited to announce that we will be hosting a debate that will feature 2 rival views of the Origin of Species!! Our 2 debators are:
1) Dr. G. Charles Jackson, who will be defending the view of Creation.
2) Evolution is a Fact, who will be defending the view of Evolution.
The topic of this debate will be "Does Geologic Record Show Faunal Succession?"
Here are the rules of the debate:
Opening Statements will be made by both parties on Friday, June 8th (as to avoid the possiblity of one party making their opening statement merely a 'first rebuttal' of the other party's opening statement) and will be a maxium of 2,000 words (quotes included)
The first 'first rebuttal' will be made by 'Evolution is a Fact' no later than Monday, June 11th and the second 'first rebuttal' will be made by Dr. Jackson no later Thursday, June 14th.. There will be a maxium of 1,750 words (quotes included)
The first 'second rebuttal' will be made by 'Evolution is a Fact' no later than Monday, June 18th and the second 'second rebuttal' will be made by Dr. Jackson no later than Friday, June 22nd.. There will be a maxium of 1,300 words (quotes included)
The closing statements will be made by both parties on Monday, June 25th.. There will be a maxium of 1,000 words (quotes included)
After the closing statements are made, each party will be allowed to ask the opposing party 3 questions (This will make up our 'Open Discussion' part of the debate)
These questions will be posted by Wednesday, June 27th.
Each party will have until Sunday, June 30th days to give a 1,000 word response to each question..
Then the debate will be over, and there will be a discussion of the debate going on on our myspace page.. www.myspace.com/lies_exposed
*Things that must be remembered.. The word limits are more guide-lines than LIMITS.. if thoughts need to be finished after the word limit has been exceeded that is fine.. but no new thoughts are to made after the word limit has been exceeded.. this is only fair..
Dr. Jackson's Opening Statement
"Does geology show faunal succession?" -- only in the minds of evolution-believers.
World-wide deposits of sandstone, limestone, ash, etc ... contain fossil bones, shells, and teeth of animals that were buried in sediments too quick for them to rot. Hard parts, mud-tracks, and few soft parts are all the evidence geology gives on the history of animals.
Fossils exist in all the layers of sediment-rock from every Phylum of Kingdom Animalia we see alive today (except the pre-Cambrian bottom layer which contains only microbes). This does not show a history of animals having once been all the same type, as evolution theory says. It does show a history of animals having always been different types, as creation theory says.
Groups of animals today have great differences in body plan. We see these same differences in the groups of fossil animals. Evolution-believers look for fossils that might show how these differences didn't exist between animals in the past, as they do now. Such fossils are called "missing-links" ... for a reason.
Sometimes a fossil might look like it has features that could show it is a missing-link. But each candidate is disqualified by features it also has that show it is clearly not. The flying squirrel might look like it has features that could show it is the missing-link between mice and bats, but it is disqualified by features it also has that show it is clearly not. This is the pattern of differences among living animals. This is the pattern of differences among fossil animals. There are living mice and bats. There are fossil mice and fossil bats. There are no mouse-bat fossils. Geology does not show that there used to be just only one type of animal. Geology shows that there have always been many types of animals.
If the Flood of Noah happened today, it would bury fossils in sediment deposits (from the deepest to the top layer) in an order that would go along with evolution theory. It would bury animals of Subphylum Vertebrata (animals with a backbone) in the order ... fish, amphibians, reptiles, birds & mammals. This would be the same order as the elevation of where they live ... which by sheer coincidence would go along with evolution theory. All other animals (Phylum Arthropoda and Phylum Mollusca, including all insects and snails) would also be buried in order of the elevation of where they live. But that order that would be out of sync with evolution theory.
What does geology show today about animals of the past? It shows all animal fossils were buried in an order that was out of sync with evolution theory ... except for the order of fossils that evolution-believers wish to see for vertebrates transitioning from water to land. But the Flood of Noah buried those fossils in water-to-land order anyway, without evolution having anything to do with it. Geology shows creation theory is right on all points of animal history. Geology shows evolution theory is wrong on all but one. Even on that one point, the suggested link-fossils are all in the same sediment layer (Devonian), and are disqualified by features that show that they are clearly not the missing-links needed for evolution to be true.
World-wide deposits of sandstone, limestone, ash, etc ... contain fossil bones, shells, and teeth of animals that were buried in sediments too quick for them to rot. Hard parts, mud-tracks, and few soft parts are all the evidence geology gives on the history of animals.
Fossils exist in all the layers of sediment-rock from every Phylum of Kingdom Animalia we see alive today (except the pre-Cambrian bottom layer which contains only microbes). This does not show a history of animals having once been all the same type, as evolution theory says. It does show a history of animals having always been different types, as creation theory says.
Groups of animals today have great differences in body plan. We see these same differences in the groups of fossil animals. Evolution-believers look for fossils that might show how these differences didn't exist between animals in the past, as they do now. Such fossils are called "missing-links" ... for a reason.
Sometimes a fossil might look like it has features that could show it is a missing-link. But each candidate is disqualified by features it also has that show it is clearly not. The flying squirrel might look like it has features that could show it is the missing-link between mice and bats, but it is disqualified by features it also has that show it is clearly not. This is the pattern of differences among living animals. This is the pattern of differences among fossil animals. There are living mice and bats. There are fossil mice and fossil bats. There are no mouse-bat fossils. Geology does not show that there used to be just only one type of animal. Geology shows that there have always been many types of animals.
If the Flood of Noah happened today, it would bury fossils in sediment deposits (from the deepest to the top layer) in an order that would go along with evolution theory. It would bury animals of Subphylum Vertebrata (animals with a backbone) in the order ... fish, amphibians, reptiles, birds & mammals. This would be the same order as the elevation of where they live ... which by sheer coincidence would go along with evolution theory. All other animals (Phylum Arthropoda and Phylum Mollusca, including all insects and snails) would also be buried in order of the elevation of where they live. But that order that would be out of sync with evolution theory.
What does geology show today about animals of the past? It shows all animal fossils were buried in an order that was out of sync with evolution theory ... except for the order of fossils that evolution-believers wish to see for vertebrates transitioning from water to land. But the Flood of Noah buried those fossils in water-to-land order anyway, without evolution having anything to do with it. Geology shows creation theory is right on all points of animal history. Geology shows evolution theory is wrong on all but one. Even on that one point, the suggested link-fossils are all in the same sediment layer (Devonian), and are disqualified by features that show that they are clearly not the missing-links needed for evolution to be true.
Evolution Is A Fact's Opening Statement
A simple Geology principle known as superpositioning describes how lower strata tend to be older than the strata above them. The existence superpositioned layers is caused by the deposition that takes place over the different Geological eras. Erosion takes away from these sediment layers. So while the order of successive layers are consistent, the layers for each Geological era do not exist in uniform sediment thickness, because desposition and erosion do not happen uniformly throughout the world, nor at the same time.
Simple physics (ie. gravity) and common sense makes it apparent that the lower strata are older as they have to be formed in order for more sediment to be deposited above them. There are a few exceptions to this of course; thrust faults and folds for examples can cause contortions in the layers. The existence of folds and thrust folds have are well understood and can be checked for, and they are by and far the exception to the rule.
The Geophysics principles mentioned above were actually known before Darwin's voyage on the Beagle, and were therefore not created for the sake of arguing evolution. Rather Evolution is in fact, largely born of the Geological history and the order of the fauna within. The men who founded modern Geology were in fact Christian, which is why Old Earth Creationism (known today as Progressive Creationism, and is sometimes mixed and matched with Theistic Evolution) predates the theory of Evolution. The geologic column and the law of faunal succession show us that the Earth's fauna have appeared in a certain order, and Evolution simply explains the cause of this reality.
To oversimplify what we find in these successive layers; we find fish before we find amphibians, which we find before we find reptiles, which we find before we find birds. A similar succession of fauna can be applied to the faunal succession leading to humans and whales. Furthermore, we find representations of transitional fossils ("in betweens") in the layers we'd expect them to if certain orders of animals evolved from others.
So for example, we find Archaeopteryx (a bird with reptilian features not found in modern day birds) in the layers of the Jurassic while we don't find modern birds until the upper layers. Conversely, we don't find birds in the strata below Archaeopteryx. It's clear that birds evolved from reptiles. Whether they did so from therapod dinosaurs (as most Paleontologists claim) or from non-dinosaur archosaurs (still a reptile) as a smaller minority claim, the point is still the same; reptiles with bird-like features and birds with reptilian features both appear during the Jurassic period (before modern birds but well after the first reptiles).
Whales are another example of faunal succession. We don't find whales in the same strata as any of the ancient Devonian fish. Rather, we only find them in the strata well above Devonian period. This would not be the case if they "appeared" at the same time as the first fish. Furthermore, there exist a few examples of fossilized transitions between land mammals and whales. Between fossilized mammals such as Pakicetus, Ambulecetus Natans, and Basiliosaurus, who show up in the fossil record well after the first mammals appear but well before modern whales do, it's clear that whales evolved from land mammals with physical characteristics similar to sea lions. The transition in pelvis, blow hole, and legs to flippers are accounted for in this sequence of animals with semi-aquatic features.
Given the succession of fossils we find in the strata, its clear that the first animals were sea dwelling creatures. Land dwelling creatures show up later (higher) in the strata. In between these two we find fossils that are clearly transitional between fish and amphibians. The succession of these creatures all follow the same basic body pattern, which tells us that the Earth's fauna share common ancestry. Furthermore, the fauna found in the upper layers become more and more diverse. At some point the only tetrapods we find are fish-amphibians. But as we move 'higher' in the strata, we find more and more diversity as we begin to find different types of reptiles in greater numbers and diversity, and eventually mammals and birds as well, also in greater numbers and diversity within each off these groups as we move higher in the strata. Furthermore, the fauna we find in the upper layers closer resemble their contemporary counterparts than what we find in the layers below.
These Paleontological discoveries can and are also cross-referenced by Geographic location of fossils, in addition to the homological and vestigial structures in modern day fauna (since the Geological record showcases faunal succession that leads to what we have now).
Both ape and early-to-mid hominid fossils are only found in Africa and Asia which, consequently happens to be the only place where modern day apes exist. Again, there is no reason why this should be the case, unless they evolved more recently than say, monkeys, which do inhabit other parts of the world. Again, primates such as monkeys show up well before later primates.
Speaking of apes and hominids; Paleoanthropology reveals a group of hominids that demonstrate the intermediate steps between ape and humans. From Australopithecus Afarensis and Africanus, Homo Rudolfensis, Habilis, Ergaster, Antecessor, and Archaic Homo Sapien to modern Homo Sapien, we see a gradual increase in brain size; from 410 CC (about the size of a Chimpanzee) to modern homo sapiens (1300 CC). Not only this, but we find that the gradual increase in brain size is accompanied by other features that become less and less ape-like, and more and more human. Brow Ridges, Sagittal Crests, Jaw sizes, and the spine becomes better adapted for bipedalism. Hominid fossils provide such a clear gradient that Creation scientists can't seem to agree which are ape and which are human.
Faunal succession shows us that tails have been common in all tetrapods that lead to apes, who, like us, contain a vestigial tail (coccyx). The fossil record also shows that our ancestors, much like today's great apes, had large powerful molars for which to chew thick vegetation. In humans, this results in wisdom teeth; vestigial teeth whose poor structure cause pain in one third of adults and in some cases, can even cause death. Coincidentally, hominid fossils show a succession towards smaller and smaller jaws which would indeed result in this crammed nature of the human jaw.
In regards to snakes, fossils like Pachyrhachis problematicus make it clear that snakes evolved from legged reptiles. Not only do we find fossilized snakes with small but pronounced legs, we find them in the East, where modern day Pythons exist. Coincidentally some Pythons have leg remnants.
Creationists have indeed raised objections to the fossil record. But they are based on a general misunderstanding of the Geologic Column. A few examples;
The Geologic Column doesn't exist/is mostly missing/only exists in text books, etc.
This stems from a common misunderstanding of what the geologic column is. Some creationists think of it a place, like Mount Rushmore and sarcastically ask "where is it then?" Others believe that a certain level of sediment must exist for the layers for the column to be real and tend to come up with interesting numbers in regards to the miles of sediment that "should" exist for the column to be real. What they appear to do is take the maximum height of sediment found for specific eras in different parts of the world, and create hypothetical "height requirement" for superpositioned layers and sometimes argue that should all exist in the same parts of the world.
This however, is a gross misunderstanding of Geophysics as there is no reason to believe that sedimentation (which creates the layers) nor erosion (which chips away from them), should happen uniformly among different parts of the world.
What makes the column and faunal succession a reality is the fact that we find the same sets of fauna in the same layers throughout the world. The Geologic Column therefore represents a series of sedimentary layers that can be cross-referenced and validated or falsified. 200 years of Geology has only served to solidify the reality of faunal succession.
There are certain theoretical findings that would indeed falsify faunal succession; like finding spear points in a Triceratops (as we do in mammoths). A fossil (or even a living animal) that fell outside of the same pattern of animal would also provide falsification. Whether contemporary or solely in the fossil record, a 6-legged mammal, a bird with wings plus 4 appendages, or a spider with wings would not be explainable within the confines of the evolutionary tree, yet "explicable" by "separate creation." Instead, we find fauna that not only existence in sequence, but do so in a limited pattern. Adaptation explains why the world's fauna would appear in this manner, whereas a conscious creator would have no pattern or timeline to have to adhere to.
Polystrate trees and fossils.
Creationists often assert that fossils or objects such as trees that penetrate a certain amount of sediment and therefore existing in a "polystrate" manner, disprove the Geological consensus that these layers represent different Geological eras. However, the problem with this argument is that it ignores 2 basic geological principles; rapid sedimentation, and cross-cutting.
Rapid sedimentation can be caused by a number of geological occurrences, including floods and landslides. Often times this provides for the best preservation of fossils as it causes for a quick burial that allows the creature to be preserved intact as it avoids being torn to pieces by predators or scavengers, and the carcass is shielded from erosion (assuming is doesn't become unearthed by other occurrences, thereby being exposed to such). Such rapid sedimentation also has the ability to bury trees in such quick fashion and hence, we find "polystrate trees" from time to time.
Then there is the simple principal of Cross-Cutting; an object which cuts through sediment must be younger than the sediment its cuts through (this is common sense as an object can't cut through sediment that doesn't exist yet). It's a known Geological fact that layers of strata can be penetrated by newer objects. One example of this would be a water logged tree being dragged down into mud, which can take centuries to harden. Creationists often use these instances as 'proof' that the Earth's sediment must be young.
Folds and thrust faults can also cause the layers to overlap and overturn. Again, these are Geological occurrences that have been known and checked for. They are nothing new, but Creationists tend to ignore them and instead look for discrepancies wherever they think they can find them.
The Geological record clearly shows a succession of species that appear from simple to complex, form sparse in diversity to more abundant. It is clear that over time, different creatures 'appeared' to fill more and more specific niches, and the pattern displayed in the record, seamlessly leads up to modern day fauna. Evolution explains this fact.
Simple physics (ie. gravity) and common sense makes it apparent that the lower strata are older as they have to be formed in order for more sediment to be deposited above them. There are a few exceptions to this of course; thrust faults and folds for examples can cause contortions in the layers. The existence of folds and thrust folds have are well understood and can be checked for, and they are by and far the exception to the rule.
The Geophysics principles mentioned above were actually known before Darwin's voyage on the Beagle, and were therefore not created for the sake of arguing evolution. Rather Evolution is in fact, largely born of the Geological history and the order of the fauna within. The men who founded modern Geology were in fact Christian, which is why Old Earth Creationism (known today as Progressive Creationism, and is sometimes mixed and matched with Theistic Evolution) predates the theory of Evolution. The geologic column and the law of faunal succession show us that the Earth's fauna have appeared in a certain order, and Evolution simply explains the cause of this reality.
To oversimplify what we find in these successive layers; we find fish before we find amphibians, which we find before we find reptiles, which we find before we find birds. A similar succession of fauna can be applied to the faunal succession leading to humans and whales. Furthermore, we find representations of transitional fossils ("in betweens") in the layers we'd expect them to if certain orders of animals evolved from others.
So for example, we find Archaeopteryx (a bird with reptilian features not found in modern day birds) in the layers of the Jurassic while we don't find modern birds until the upper layers. Conversely, we don't find birds in the strata below Archaeopteryx. It's clear that birds evolved from reptiles. Whether they did so from therapod dinosaurs (as most Paleontologists claim) or from non-dinosaur archosaurs (still a reptile) as a smaller minority claim, the point is still the same; reptiles with bird-like features and birds with reptilian features both appear during the Jurassic period (before modern birds but well after the first reptiles).
Whales are another example of faunal succession. We don't find whales in the same strata as any of the ancient Devonian fish. Rather, we only find them in the strata well above Devonian period. This would not be the case if they "appeared" at the same time as the first fish. Furthermore, there exist a few examples of fossilized transitions between land mammals and whales. Between fossilized mammals such as Pakicetus, Ambulecetus Natans, and Basiliosaurus, who show up in the fossil record well after the first mammals appear but well before modern whales do, it's clear that whales evolved from land mammals with physical characteristics similar to sea lions. The transition in pelvis, blow hole, and legs to flippers are accounted for in this sequence of animals with semi-aquatic features.
Given the succession of fossils we find in the strata, its clear that the first animals were sea dwelling creatures. Land dwelling creatures show up later (higher) in the strata. In between these two we find fossils that are clearly transitional between fish and amphibians. The succession of these creatures all follow the same basic body pattern, which tells us that the Earth's fauna share common ancestry. Furthermore, the fauna found in the upper layers become more and more diverse. At some point the only tetrapods we find are fish-amphibians. But as we move 'higher' in the strata, we find more and more diversity as we begin to find different types of reptiles in greater numbers and diversity, and eventually mammals and birds as well, also in greater numbers and diversity within each off these groups as we move higher in the strata. Furthermore, the fauna we find in the upper layers closer resemble their contemporary counterparts than what we find in the layers below.
These Paleontological discoveries can and are also cross-referenced by Geographic location of fossils, in addition to the homological and vestigial structures in modern day fauna (since the Geological record showcases faunal succession that leads to what we have now).
Both ape and early-to-mid hominid fossils are only found in Africa and Asia which, consequently happens to be the only place where modern day apes exist. Again, there is no reason why this should be the case, unless they evolved more recently than say, monkeys, which do inhabit other parts of the world. Again, primates such as monkeys show up well before later primates.
Speaking of apes and hominids; Paleoanthropology reveals a group of hominids that demonstrate the intermediate steps between ape and humans. From Australopithecus Afarensis and Africanus, Homo Rudolfensis, Habilis, Ergaster, Antecessor, and Archaic Homo Sapien to modern Homo Sapien, we see a gradual increase in brain size; from 410 CC (about the size of a Chimpanzee) to modern homo sapiens (1300 CC). Not only this, but we find that the gradual increase in brain size is accompanied by other features that become less and less ape-like, and more and more human. Brow Ridges, Sagittal Crests, Jaw sizes, and the spine becomes better adapted for bipedalism. Hominid fossils provide such a clear gradient that Creation scientists can't seem to agree which are ape and which are human.
Faunal succession shows us that tails have been common in all tetrapods that lead to apes, who, like us, contain a vestigial tail (coccyx). The fossil record also shows that our ancestors, much like today's great apes, had large powerful molars for which to chew thick vegetation. In humans, this results in wisdom teeth; vestigial teeth whose poor structure cause pain in one third of adults and in some cases, can even cause death. Coincidentally, hominid fossils show a succession towards smaller and smaller jaws which would indeed result in this crammed nature of the human jaw.
In regards to snakes, fossils like Pachyrhachis problematicus make it clear that snakes evolved from legged reptiles. Not only do we find fossilized snakes with small but pronounced legs, we find them in the East, where modern day Pythons exist. Coincidentally some Pythons have leg remnants.
Creationists have indeed raised objections to the fossil record. But they are based on a general misunderstanding of the Geologic Column. A few examples;
The Geologic Column doesn't exist/is mostly missing/only exists in text books, etc.
This stems from a common misunderstanding of what the geologic column is. Some creationists think of it a place, like Mount Rushmore and sarcastically ask "where is it then?" Others believe that a certain level of sediment must exist for the layers for the column to be real and tend to come up with interesting numbers in regards to the miles of sediment that "should" exist for the column to be real. What they appear to do is take the maximum height of sediment found for specific eras in different parts of the world, and create hypothetical "height requirement" for superpositioned layers and sometimes argue that should all exist in the same parts of the world.
This however, is a gross misunderstanding of Geophysics as there is no reason to believe that sedimentation (which creates the layers) nor erosion (which chips away from them), should happen uniformly among different parts of the world.
What makes the column and faunal succession a reality is the fact that we find the same sets of fauna in the same layers throughout the world. The Geologic Column therefore represents a series of sedimentary layers that can be cross-referenced and validated or falsified. 200 years of Geology has only served to solidify the reality of faunal succession.
There are certain theoretical findings that would indeed falsify faunal succession; like finding spear points in a Triceratops (as we do in mammoths). A fossil (or even a living animal) that fell outside of the same pattern of animal would also provide falsification. Whether contemporary or solely in the fossil record, a 6-legged mammal, a bird with wings plus 4 appendages, or a spider with wings would not be explainable within the confines of the evolutionary tree, yet "explicable" by "separate creation." Instead, we find fauna that not only existence in sequence, but do so in a limited pattern. Adaptation explains why the world's fauna would appear in this manner, whereas a conscious creator would have no pattern or timeline to have to adhere to.
Polystrate trees and fossils.
Creationists often assert that fossils or objects such as trees that penetrate a certain amount of sediment and therefore existing in a "polystrate" manner, disprove the Geological consensus that these layers represent different Geological eras. However, the problem with this argument is that it ignores 2 basic geological principles; rapid sedimentation, and cross-cutting.
Rapid sedimentation can be caused by a number of geological occurrences, including floods and landslides. Often times this provides for the best preservation of fossils as it causes for a quick burial that allows the creature to be preserved intact as it avoids being torn to pieces by predators or scavengers, and the carcass is shielded from erosion (assuming is doesn't become unearthed by other occurrences, thereby being exposed to such). Such rapid sedimentation also has the ability to bury trees in such quick fashion and hence, we find "polystrate trees" from time to time.
Then there is the simple principal of Cross-Cutting; an object which cuts through sediment must be younger than the sediment its cuts through (this is common sense as an object can't cut through sediment that doesn't exist yet). It's a known Geological fact that layers of strata can be penetrated by newer objects. One example of this would be a water logged tree being dragged down into mud, which can take centuries to harden. Creationists often use these instances as 'proof' that the Earth's sediment must be young.
Folds and thrust faults can also cause the layers to overlap and overturn. Again, these are Geological occurrences that have been known and checked for. They are nothing new, but Creationists tend to ignore them and instead look for discrepancies wherever they think they can find them.
The Geological record clearly shows a succession of species that appear from simple to complex, form sparse in diversity to more abundant. It is clear that over time, different creatures 'appeared' to fill more and more specific niches, and the pattern displayed in the record, seamlessly leads up to modern day fauna. Evolution explains this fact.
Friday, June 8, 2007
Atheists
Atheists
The reason Atheists can't find God is the same reason thiefs can't find police.
I have come to the conclusion that God doesn't believe in Athiests but He still loves them and is more than willing to forgive anyone's sin if they accept Christ's ultimate sacrifice on the cross.
I belong in hell! And I'm a Christian!
I'll be the first one to say it, I have done nothing worthy of God's love. But I've accepted His sacrifice on the cross that replaced my sin with His grace. God hates sin but loves sinners. Just like a mother may love her son but does not love his misbehavior.
I've also come to the conclusion that everyone dies...duh. And everyone will be dead much longer than they've lived. Atheists better be absolutely sure God doesn't exist cause when we all face Him that day we'll be without excuse.
I'm not trying to start another dialogue. I just want to see people in heaven just like God does. There are 2 things to keep in mind:
#1. If I'm wrong about the afterlife then fine, no problem, we'll all return the earth and become trees.
#2. If atheists are wrong then.... We'll all face God and have tell Him why we didn't accept His free gift of salvation.
So to anyone reading this blog site, realize its about much more than what's being done in the classroom. It's about what happens when we die. I want you in heaven, God wants you there too. Accept His grace and forgiveness and build your relationship with Him.
-Joey, co-founder of ELIE
The reason Atheists can't find God is the same reason thiefs can't find police.
I have come to the conclusion that God doesn't believe in Athiests but He still loves them and is more than willing to forgive anyone's sin if they accept Christ's ultimate sacrifice on the cross.
I belong in hell! And I'm a Christian!
I'll be the first one to say it, I have done nothing worthy of God's love. But I've accepted His sacrifice on the cross that replaced my sin with His grace. God hates sin but loves sinners. Just like a mother may love her son but does not love his misbehavior.
I've also come to the conclusion that everyone dies...duh. And everyone will be dead much longer than they've lived. Atheists better be absolutely sure God doesn't exist cause when we all face Him that day we'll be without excuse.
I'm not trying to start another dialogue. I just want to see people in heaven just like God does. There are 2 things to keep in mind:
#1. If I'm wrong about the afterlife then fine, no problem, we'll all return the earth and become trees.
#2. If atheists are wrong then.... We'll all face God and have tell Him why we didn't accept His free gift of salvation.
So to anyone reading this blog site, realize its about much more than what's being done in the classroom. It's about what happens when we die. I want you in heaven, God wants you there too. Accept His grace and forgiveness and build your relationship with Him.
-Joey, co-founder of ELIE
Dinosaurs
Dinosaurs
by Ken Ham
An aura of mystery surrounds the dinosaurs. Where did they come from? Did they evolve? Did they really live millions of years ago? What happened to them? Are there any living today? Has any human being ever seen a live dinosaur?
Children and adults alike are absolutely fascinated by these mysterious monsters. Numerous books and movies have been produced to satisfy a seemingly insatiable hunger for information on these puzzling creatures. The truth of the matter, however, is that there are no real mysteries at all, once you have key information that is not generally known and is withheld from the public.
Come with me as we take a walk through history and uncover some amazing facts that will answer many of your questions about these 'terrible lizards.'
Some were as small as chickens, and others were even smaller. Of course, some dinosaurs were very large, weighing in at an estimated 80 tons and standing 40 feet high! The average size of a dinosaur, however, was probably about that of a small horse.
After Adam's sin, animals and people started to die. It was now a different world, one of death and strife. A world that was once beautiful now suffered under the curse placed upon it by the Creator (Genesis 3:14-19). But a promise was given (Genesis 3:15) that God would provide a way for the penalty of sin to be paid so there would be a way for man to come back to God.
In Genesis 6, we read that all flesh (man and animals) had 'corrupted his way upon the Earth' (Genesis 6:12). Perhaps people and animals were killing each other; maybe dinosaurs had started killing other animals and humans. In any case, the Bible describes the world as 'wicked.'
Because of this wickedness, God warned a godly man named Noah that He was going to destroy the world with a Flood (Genesis 6:13). God therefore commanded him to build a great ship (the Ark) so that all the kinds of land animals (which must have included dinosaurs) and Noah's family could survive on board while the Flood destroyed the entire Earth (Genesis 6:14-20).
Some people think that dinosaurs were too big, or there were too many of them, to go on this Ark. However, there were not very many different kinds of dinosaurs. There are certainly hundreds of dinosaur names, but many of these were given to just a bit of bone or skeletons of the same dinosaur found in other countries. It is also reasonable to assume that different sizes, varieties, and sexes of the same kind of dinosaur have ended up with different names. For example, look at the many different varieties and sizes of dogs, but they are all the same kind-the dog kind! In reality, there may have been fewer than 50 kinds of dinosaurs.
God sent two of every (seven of some) land animal into the Ark (Genesis 7:2-3; 7:8-9)—there were no exceptions. Therefore, dinosaurs must have been on the Ark. Even though there was ample room in the huge ship for large animals, perhaps God sent young adults into the Ark that still had plenty of room for them to grow.
By the way, the Flood of Noah's day probably occurred just over 4,500 years ago. Creationists believe that this event formed many of the fossil layers around the Earth. (Additional fossil layers were formed by other floods as the Earth settled down after the great Flood.) Thus, the dinosaur fossils which were formed as a result of this Flood were probably formed about 4,500 years ago, not millions of years ago.
Have Dinosaurs Lived in Recent Times?
If the different kinds of dinosaurs survived the Flood, then they must have come off the Ark and lived in the post-Flood world.
In the Bible, in Job 40:15-24, God describes to Job (who lived after the Flood) a great beast with which Job was familiar. This great animal, called 'behemoth,' is described as 'the chief of the ways of God,' perhaps the biggest land animal God had created. Impressively, he moved his tail like a cedar tree! Although some Bible commentaries say this may have been an elephant or hippopotamus, the description actually fits that of a dinosaur like Brachiosaurus. Elephants and hippos certainly do not have tails like cedar trees!
Interestingly, the word 'dragon' is used a number of times in the Old Testament. In most instances, the word dinosaur could substitute for dragon and it would fit very nicely. Creation scientists believe that dinosaurs were called dragons before the word dinosaur was invented in the 1800s. We would not expect to find the word dinosaur in Bibles like the Authorized Version (1611), as it was translated well before the word dinosaur was ever used.
Also, there are many very old history books in various libraries around the world that have detailed records of dragons and their encounters with people. Surprisingly (or not so surprisingly for creationists), many of these descriptions of dragons fit with how modern scientists would describe dinosaurs, even Tyrannosaurus. Unfortunately, this evidence is not considered valid by evolutionists. Why? Only because their belief is that man and dinosaurs did not live at the same time!
However, the more we research the historical literature, the more we realize there is overwhelming evidence that dragons were real beasts, much like our modern reconstructions of dinosaurs, and that their existence has been recorded by many different people, even just hundreds of years ago.
What Happened to Dinosaurs?
Evolutionists use their imagination in a big way in answering this question. Because of their belief that dinosaurs 'ruled' the world for millions of years, and then disappeared millions of years before man allegedly evolved, they have had to come up with all sorts of guesses to explain this 'mysterious' disappearance.
When reading evolutionist literature, you will be astonished at the range of ideas concerning their supposed extinction. The following is just a small list of theories:
'Now comes the important question. What caused all these extinctions at one particular point in time, approximately 65 million years ago? Dozens of reasons have been suggested, some serious and sensible, others quite crazy, and yet others merely as a joke. Every year people come up with new theories on this thorny problem. The trouble is that if we are to find just one reason to account for them all, it would have to explain the death, all at the same time, of animals living on land and of animals living in the sea; but, in both cases, of only some of those animals, for many of the land dwellers and many of the sea-dwellers went on living quite happily into the following period. Alas, no such one explanation exists' (Alan Charig, p. 150).
At the time of the Flood, many of the sea creatures died, but some survived. In addition, all of the land creatures outside the Ark died, but the representatives of all the kinds that survived on the Ark lived in the new world after the Flood. Those land animals (including dinosaurs) found the new world to be much different than the one before the Flood. Due to (1) competition for food that was no longer in abundance, (2) other catastrophes, (3) man killing for food (and perhaps for fun), and (4) the destruction of habitats, etc., many species of animals eventually died out. The group of animals we now call dinosaurs just happened to die out too. In fact, quite a number of animals become extinct each year. Extinction seems to be the rule in Earth history (not the formation of new types of animals as you would expect from evolution).
The answer is probably not … but, then again? There are some scientists who believe a few dinosaurs may have survived in remote jungles. We are still discovering new species of animals and plants today in areas that have been too difficult to explore until now. Even natives in some countries describe beasts that fit with what might be a dinosaur.
Creationists, of course, would not be surprised if someone found a living dinosaur. However, evolutionists would then have to explain why they made dogmatic statements that man and dinosaur never lived at the same time. I suspect they would say something to the effect that this dinosaur somehow survived because it was trapped in a remote area that has not changed for millions of years. You see, no matter what is found, or how embarrassing it is to evolutionists' ideas, they will always be able to concoct an 'answer' because evolution is a belief. It is not science—it is not fact!
When we see the bones of dinosaurs, we can be reminded that death was not a part of the original creation. Death is actually an intruder, entering when the first man disobeyed God. The Bible tells us that because we are all descendants of Adam, we too have sinned: 'Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned' (Romans 5:12); 'For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God' (Romans 3:23). We need to recognize that the wickedness in the world is because of sin, because man rebelled against God.
We can also be reminded that God, who made all things, including the dinosaurs, is also a judge of His creation. He judged Adam's rebellion by cursing the world with death. Adam was warned about what would happen if he disobeyed God's instruction not to eat the fruit of one particular tree. 'But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die' (Genesis 2:17).
Dinosaurs can also remind us that God judged the rebellion in Noah's day by destroying the wicked world with water, resulting in the death of millions of creatures. The Bible teaches us that He will again judge the world, but next time by fire: 'But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the Earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up' (2 Peter 3:10).
We can also be reminded that after this judgment by fire, God will make a new heaven and Earth: 'Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new Earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness' (2 Peter 3:13). And what will it be like in this new Earth? 'And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away' (Revelation 21:4).
But we are also warned that many will not be allowed into this new Earth but will suffer for eternity: 'But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death' (Revelation 21:8).
Humans, who are all sinful from conception (Psalm 51:5), cannot live with a Holy God, but are condemned to separation from God. But, God provided a wonderful means of deliverance from sin. The Bible teaches that God offered the perfect sacrifice needed to pay the penalty for man's sin. God's own Son, the one who in fact created the world (Colossians 1:16), came to Earth as a man, as a descendant of Adam, to suffer the death penalty for sin. 'But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive' (I Corinthians 15:20-22).
The Lord Jesus Christ died on a cross, but on the third day, rose again, conquering death, so that anyone who believes in Him and accepts Him into his or her life, is able to come back to God and live for eternity with the Creator. 'For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life' (John 3:16); 'If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness' (I John 1:9).
For those who do not accept by faith what Christ has done for them and do not recognize their sinful nature and need for redemption, the Bible warns that such people will live forever, but will be separated from God in a place of torment that the Bible calls Hell. But for those who commit their lives to the Lord—what a wonderful message! What a wonderful Savior! What a wonderful salvation in Christ the Creator!
by Ken Ham
An aura of mystery surrounds the dinosaurs. Where did they come from? Did they evolve? Did they really live millions of years ago? What happened to them? Are there any living today? Has any human being ever seen a live dinosaur?
Children and adults alike are absolutely fascinated by these mysterious monsters. Numerous books and movies have been produced to satisfy a seemingly insatiable hunger for information on these puzzling creatures. The truth of the matter, however, is that there are no real mysteries at all, once you have key information that is not generally known and is withheld from the public.
Come with me as we take a walk through history and uncover some amazing facts that will answer many of your questions about these 'terrible lizards.'
Did Dinosaurs Really Exist?
Dinosaurs certainly did roam the Earth in the ancient past! Fossils of dinosaurs have been found all over the world, and their bones are displayed in museums for all to see. Scientists have been able to reconstruct many of their skeletons, so we know much about how they may have looked.
When Were Dinosaurs Found?
The story of their discovery began back in the 1820s, when Gideon Mantell, an English doctor, found some unusual teeth and bones in a quarry. Dr Mantell realized there was something very different about these animal remains, and believed that he had found an entirely new group of reptiles. By 1841, about nine types of these different reptiles had been uncovered, including two called Megalosaurus and Iguanodon.
At this time, a famous British scientist (and creationist), Dr Richard Owen, coined the name 'Dinosauria,' meaning 'terrible lizard,' for this is what the huge bones made him think of.
What Makes Dinosaurs Different?
Other than the huge size of some dinosaurs, the major feature that really distinguishes dinosaurs from other reptiles (such as crocodiles) is the
position of their limbs. Dinosaurs had posture that was fully erect, similar to that in mammals. Most other reptiles have limbs in a sprawling position. For instance, compare the way a crocodile 'walks' with that of, say, a cow. Dinosaurs would have moved like a cow, with the limbs supporting the body from beneath. Crocodiles 'waddle,' as their limbs project sideways from their body.
position of their limbs. Dinosaurs had posture that was fully erect, similar to that in mammals. Most other reptiles have limbs in a sprawling position. For instance, compare the way a crocodile 'walks' with that of, say, a cow. Dinosaurs would have moved like a cow, with the limbs supporting the body from beneath. Crocodiles 'waddle,' as their limbs project sideways from their body.How Big Were Dinosaurs?
Some were as small as chickens, and others were even smaller. Of course, some dinosaurs were very large, weighing in at an estimated 80 tons and standing 40 feet high! The average size of a dinosaur, however, was probably about that of a small horse.
When Did Dinosaurs Live?
The story we have all heard from movies, television, newspapers, and most magazines and textbooks is that dinosaurs lived millions of years ago. According to evolutionists, the dinosaurs 'ruled the Earth' for 140 million years, dying out about 65 million years ago. However, scientists do not dig up anything labeled with those ages. They only uncover dead dinosaurs (i.e., their bones), and their bones do not have labels attached telling how old they are. The idea of millions of years of evolution is just the evolutionists' story about the past. No scientist was there to see the dinosaurs live through this supposed dinosaur age. In fact, there is no proof whatsoever that the world and its fossil layers are millions of years old. No scientist observed dinosaurs die. Scientists only find the bones in the here and now, and because many of them are evolutionists, they try to fit the story of the dinosaurs into their view.
Other scientists, called creation scientists, have a different idea about when dinosaurs lived. They believe they can solve any of the supposed dinosaur mysteries and show how the evidence fits wonderfully with their ideas about the past, beliefs that come from the Bible.
The Bible, God's very special book (or collection of books, really), claims that each writer was supernaturally inspired to write exactly what the Creator of all things wanted him to write down for us so that we can know where we (and dinosaurs) came from, why we are here, and what our future will be. The first book in the Bible—Genesis—teaches us many things about how the universe and life came into existence. Genesis tells us that God created everything—the Earth, stars, sun, moon, plants, animals, and the first two people.
Although the Bible does not tell us exactly how long ago it was that God made the world and its creatures, we can make a good estimate of the date of creation by reading through the Bible and noting some interesting passages:
1 - God made everything in six days. He did this, by the way, to set a pattern for mankind, which has become our seven day week (as described in Exodus 20:11). God worked for six days and rested for one, as a model for us. Furthermore, Bible scholars will tell you that the Hebrew word for day used in Genesis 1, can only mean an ordinary day in this context.
2 - We are told God created the first man and woman—Adam and Eve—on Day Six. Many facts about when their children and their children's children were born are given in Genesis. These genealogies are recorded throughout the Old Testament, up until the time of Christ. They certainly were not chronologies lasting millions of years.
As you add up all of the dates, and accepting that Jesus Christ, the Son of God, came to Earth almost 2000 years ago, we come to the conclusion that the creation of the Earth and animals (including the dinosaurs) occurred only thousands of years ago (perhaps only 6000!), not millions of years. Thus, if the Bible is right (and it is!), dinosaurs must have lived within the past thousands of years.
Where Did Dinosaurs Come From?
Evolutionists claim that dinosaurs evolved over millions of years. They imagine that one kind of animal slowly changed over long periods of time to become a different kind of animal. For instance, they believe that amphibians changed into reptiles (including dinosaurs) by this gradual process. This would mean, of course, that there would have been millions of creatures during that time that would be 'in between,' as amphibians evolved into reptiles. Evidence of these 'transitional forms,' as they are called, should be abundant. However, many fossil experts admit that not one unquestionable transitional form between any group of creatures and another has been found anywhere. If dinosaurs evolved from amphibians, there should be, for example, fossil evidence of animals that are part dinosaur and part something else. However, there is no proof of this anywhere. In fact, if you go into any museum you will see fossils of dinosaurs that are 100% dinosaur, not something in between. There are no 25%, 50%, 75%, or even 99% dinosaurs—they are all 100% dinosaur!
The Bible tells us that God created all of the land animals on the sixth day of creation. As dinosaurs were land animals, they must have been made on this day, alongside Adam and Eve, who were also created on Day Six (Genesis 1:24-31). If God designed and created dinosaurs, they would have been fully functional, designed to do what they were created for, and would have been 100% dinosaur. This fits exactly with the evidence from the fossil record.
The Bible tells us that God created all of the land animals on the sixth day of creation. As dinosaurs were land animals, they must have been made on this day, alongside Adam and Eve, who were also created on Day Six (Genesis 1:24-31). If God designed and created dinosaurs, they would have been fully functional, designed to do what they were created for, and would have been 100% dinosaur. This fits exactly with the evidence from the fossil record.
Evolutionists declare that no man ever lived alongside dinosaurs. The Bible, however, makes it plain that dinosaurs and people must have lived together. Actually, as we will soon see, there is a lot of evidence for this.
What Did Dinosaurs Eat?
The Bible teaches (in Genesis 1:29-30) that the original animals (and the first humans) were commanded to be vegetarian. There were no meat eaters in the original creation. Furthermore, there was no death. It was an unblemished world, with Adam and Eve and animals (including dinosaurs) living in perfect harmony, eating only plants.
Sadly, it did not stay this way for very long. Adam rebelled against his Creator, bringing sin into the world (Genesis 3:1-7; Romans 5:12). Because of this rebellion, Adam, and thus all of his descendants (you and me), gave up the right to live with a Holy (sinless) and just God. God therefore judged sin with death.
The Bible plainly teaches from Genesis to Revelation that there was no death of animals or humans before Adam sinned. (Consider just a few of the many passages, such as: Romans 5:12; Genesis 2:17; Genesis 1:29-30; Romans 8:20-22; Acts 3:21; Hebrews 9:22; I Corinthians 15; Revelation 21:1-4; Revelation 22:3.) This means there could not have been any animal fossils (and no dinosaur bones) before sin.
After Adam's sin, animals and people started to die. It was now a different world, one of death and strife. A world that was once beautiful now suffered under the curse placed upon it by the Creator (Genesis 3:14-19). But a promise was given (Genesis 3:15) that God would provide a way for the penalty of sin to be paid so there would be a way for man to come back to God.
Why Do We Find Dinosaur Fossils?
In Genesis 6, we read that all flesh (man and animals) had 'corrupted his way upon the Earth' (Genesis 6:12). Perhaps people and animals were killing each other; maybe dinosaurs had started killing other animals and humans. In any case, the Bible describes the world as 'wicked.'
Because of this wickedness, God warned a godly man named Noah that He was going to destroy the world with a Flood (Genesis 6:13). God therefore commanded him to build a great ship (the Ark) so that all the kinds of land animals (which must have included dinosaurs) and Noah's family could survive on board while the Flood destroyed the entire Earth (Genesis 6:14-20).
Some people think that dinosaurs were too big, or there were too many of them, to go on this Ark. However, there were not very many different kinds of dinosaurs. There are certainly hundreds of dinosaur names, but many of these were given to just a bit of bone or skeletons of the same dinosaur found in other countries. It is also reasonable to assume that different sizes, varieties, and sexes of the same kind of dinosaur have ended up with different names. For example, look at the many different varieties and sizes of dogs, but they are all the same kind-the dog kind! In reality, there may have been fewer than 50 kinds of dinosaurs.
God sent two of every (seven of some) land animal into the Ark (Genesis 7:2-3; 7:8-9)—there were no exceptions. Therefore, dinosaurs must have been on the Ark. Even though there was ample room in the huge ship for large animals, perhaps God sent young adults into the Ark that still had plenty of room for them to grow.
Well, what happened to all the land animals that did not go on the Ark? Very simply, they drowned. Many would have been covered with tons of mud as the rampaging water covered the land (Genesis 7:11-12,19). Because of this quick burial, many of the animals would have been preserved as fossils. If this happened, you would expect to find evidence of billions of dead things buried in rock layers (formed from this mud) all over the Earth. This is exactly what you do find.
By the way, the Flood of Noah's day probably occurred just over 4,500 years ago. Creationists believe that this event formed many of the fossil layers around the Earth. (Additional fossil layers were formed by other floods as the Earth settled down after the great Flood.) Thus, the dinosaur fossils which were formed as a result of this Flood were probably formed about 4,500 years ago, not millions of years ago.
Have Dinosaurs Lived in Recent Times?
If the different kinds of dinosaurs survived the Flood, then they must have come off the Ark and lived in the post-Flood world.
In the Bible, in Job 40:15-24, God describes to Job (who lived after the Flood) a great beast with which Job was familiar. This great animal, called 'behemoth,' is described as 'the chief of the ways of God,' perhaps the biggest land animal God had created. Impressively, he moved his tail like a cedar tree! Although some Bible commentaries say this may have been an elephant or hippopotamus, the description actually fits that of a dinosaur like Brachiosaurus. Elephants and hippos certainly do not have tails like cedar trees!
Actually, very few animals are singled out in the Bible for such a detailed
description. Contrary to what many may think, what we know now as dinosaurs get more mention in the Scriptures than most animals! So dinosaurs—all the different kinds—must have lived alongside of people after the Flood.
description. Contrary to what many may think, what we know now as dinosaurs get more mention in the Scriptures than most animals! So dinosaurs—all the different kinds—must have lived alongside of people after the Flood.Are Dinosaurs Mentioned in Ancient Literature?
Interestingly, the word 'dragon' is used a number of times in the Old Testament. In most instances, the word dinosaur could substitute for dragon and it would fit very nicely. Creation scientists believe that dinosaurs were called dragons before the word dinosaur was invented in the 1800s. We would not expect to find the word dinosaur in Bibles like the Authorized Version (1611), as it was translated well before the word dinosaur was ever used.
Also, there are many very old history books in various libraries around the world that have detailed records of dragons and their encounters with people. Surprisingly (or not so surprisingly for creationists), many of these descriptions of dragons fit with how modern scientists would describe dinosaurs, even Tyrannosaurus. Unfortunately, this evidence is not considered valid by evolutionists. Why? Only because their belief is that man and dinosaurs did not live at the same time!
However, the more we research the historical literature, the more we realize there is overwhelming evidence that dragons were real beasts, much like our modern reconstructions of dinosaurs, and that their existence has been recorded by many different people, even just hundreds of years ago.
What Happened to Dinosaurs?
Evolutionists use their imagination in a big way in answering this question. Because of their belief that dinosaurs 'ruled' the world for millions of years, and then disappeared millions of years before man allegedly evolved, they have had to come up with all sorts of guesses to explain this 'mysterious' disappearance.
When reading evolutionist literature, you will be astonished at the range of ideas concerning their supposed extinction. The following is just a small list of theories:
Dinosaurs starved to death; they died from overeating; they were poisoned; they became blind from cataracts and could not reproduce; mammals ate their eggs. Other causes include-volcanic dust, poisonous gases, comets, sunspots, meteorites, mass suicide, constipation, parasites, shrinking brain (and greater stupidity), slipped discs, changes in the
composition of air, etc.
It is obvious that evolutionists don't know what happened and are grasping at straws. In a recent evolutionary book on dinosaurs, 'A New Look At the Dinosaurs,' the author made the statement:
'Now comes the important question. What caused all these extinctions at one particular point in time, approximately 65 million years ago? Dozens of reasons have been suggested, some serious and sensible, others quite crazy, and yet others merely as a joke. Every year people come up with new theories on this thorny problem. The trouble is that if we are to find just one reason to account for them all, it would have to explain the death, all at the same time, of animals living on land and of animals living in the sea; but, in both cases, of only some of those animals, for many of the land dwellers and many of the sea-dwellers went on living quite happily into the following period. Alas, no such one explanation exists' (Alan Charig, p. 150).
But, one such explanation does exist. If you remove the evolutionary framework, get rid of the millions of years, and then take the Bible seriously, you will find an explanation that fits the facts and makes perfect sense:
At the time of the Flood, many of the sea creatures died, but some survived. In addition, all of the land creatures outside the Ark died, but the representatives of all the kinds that survived on the Ark lived in the new world after the Flood. Those land animals (including dinosaurs) found the new world to be much different than the one before the Flood. Due to (1) competition for food that was no longer in abundance, (2) other catastrophes, (3) man killing for food (and perhaps for fun), and (4) the destruction of habitats, etc., many species of animals eventually died out. The group of animals we now call dinosaurs just happened to die out too. In fact, quite a number of animals become extinct each year. Extinction seems to be the rule in Earth history (not the formation of new types of animals as you would expect from evolution).
Will We Ever See a Live Dinosaur?
The answer is probably not … but, then again? There are some scientists who believe a few dinosaurs may have survived in remote jungles. We are still discovering new species of animals and plants today in areas that have been too difficult to explore until now. Even natives in some countries describe beasts that fit with what might be a dinosaur.
Creationists, of course, would not be surprised if someone found a living dinosaur. However, evolutionists would then have to explain why they made dogmatic statements that man and dinosaur never lived at the same time. I suspect they would say something to the effect that this dinosaur somehow survived because it was trapped in a remote area that has not changed for millions of years. You see, no matter what is found, or how embarrassing it is to evolutionists' ideas, they will always be able to concoct an 'answer' because evolution is a belief. It is not science—it is not fact!
What Lessons Can We Learn From the Dinosaur?
When we see the bones of dinosaurs, we can be reminded that death was not a part of the original creation. Death is actually an intruder, entering when the first man disobeyed God. The Bible tells us that because we are all descendants of Adam, we too have sinned: 'Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned' (Romans 5:12); 'For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God' (Romans 3:23). We need to recognize that the wickedness in the world is because of sin, because man rebelled against God.
We can also be reminded that God, who made all things, including the dinosaurs, is also a judge of His creation. He judged Adam's rebellion by cursing the world with death. Adam was warned about what would happen if he disobeyed God's instruction not to eat the fruit of one particular tree. 'But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die' (Genesis 2:17).
Dinosaurs can also remind us that God judged the rebellion in Noah's day by destroying the wicked world with water, resulting in the death of millions of creatures. The Bible teaches us that He will again judge the world, but next time by fire: 'But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the Earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up' (2 Peter 3:10).
We can also be reminded that after this judgment by fire, God will make a new heaven and Earth: 'Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new Earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness' (2 Peter 3:13). And what will it be like in this new Earth? 'And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away' (Revelation 21:4).
But we are also warned that many will not be allowed into this new Earth but will suffer for eternity: 'But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death' (Revelation 21:8).
Humans, who are all sinful from conception (Psalm 51:5), cannot live with a Holy God, but are condemned to separation from God. But, God provided a wonderful means of deliverance from sin. The Bible teaches that God offered the perfect sacrifice needed to pay the penalty for man's sin. God's own Son, the one who in fact created the world (Colossians 1:16), came to Earth as a man, as a descendant of Adam, to suffer the death penalty for sin. 'But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive' (I Corinthians 15:20-22).
The Lord Jesus Christ died on a cross, but on the third day, rose again, conquering death, so that anyone who believes in Him and accepts Him into his or her life, is able to come back to God and live for eternity with the Creator. 'For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life' (John 3:16); 'If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness' (I John 1:9).
For those who do not accept by faith what Christ has done for them and do not recognize their sinful nature and need for redemption, the Bible warns that such people will live forever, but will be separated from God in a place of torment that the Bible calls Hell. But for those who commit their lives to the Lord—what a wonderful message! What a wonderful Savior! What a wonderful salvation in Christ the Creator!
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